- Wyters (page 286)
- Correction
- Wyters and Rune points
- Wyters and Extension
- Wyters spend POW instead of Rune Points to cast spells.
- Casting Rune magic with POW or Rune points
- Wyters, Spirit Magic and Magic Points
- Magic Points or POW
- Are there wyters with less than 50 worshippers?
- Are Wyter’s too strong?
- Notes on Wyters from the unpublished RQ Campaign book
- Wyters and Spirit Combat
- Wyters and Rune magic
Wyters (page 286)
Correction
The origins of an individual wyters varies,
*
Wyters and Rune points
The RQG rulebook (p286) says that wyters don’t have Rune Points: they spend POW when casting Rune Magic. Good enough. But the RQ Bestiary says the same (p174) while at the same time giving an example wyter that has Rune Points separate (and different) from its POW.
Please see Wyters in the RuneQuest Glorantha Bestiary – Q&A for corrections.
The RQ Gamemaster Adventures provides stats for the Colymar tribal wyter and it too gives separate Rune Points (although it ties those to Orlanth Rex specifically).
Please see the RuneQuest Gamemaster Screen Pack – Q&A for corrections.
So do wyters have Rune Points or not?
If they have the Rune magic ability, or other relevant backstory – yes, otherwise no.
Could a wyter use Rune Points rather than burning POW, and should wyters even have RP anyway?
No. Wyters are not initiates, they can be subcults though. (RQG 287). Remember, a wyter is linked to a single priest, it’s members have an appropriate loyalty and do not spend POW to become initiates of it. If the wyter is a subcult, they are initiated to the main cult.
Wyters and Extension
Could a wyter cast Find Enemy with Extension on lots of community members?
Yes. Providing its priest knows the spells, a Wyter can cast any spell that is known by its priest (see RQG 286 & 287) eg:
Assuming the priest knows both spells (some cults don’t have all common magic), a wyter casts Detect Enemies on 6 members of it’s community (have appropriate loyalty) Detect Enemies 1pt + Extension 5 + 1 extra point for 5 more people = 7 POW and uses CHAx5 to cast.
Wyters spend POW instead of Rune Points to cast spells.
Do they have a means of recovering POW other than normal POW gain rolls? If so what is it, if not what is their POW gain roll?
Until we go into more detail on wyters, assume that wyters may have POW restored by their bound priests sacrificing POW to them.
(if they can not recover Rune Points more quickly, that would seem to make using the POW of a Wyter that way a desperation move for a community)
Exactly so. The wyter is a guardian, not a weapon.
Some of the wyters also have a separate number of Rune Points listed – what does this mean, if they don’t use Rune Points to cast spells?
Those wyters described with Rune points can use those Rune points in place of characteristic POW, and can recover their Rune points in the same fashion as adventurers.
Casting Rune magic with POW or Rune points
Is it intended that a wyter with RP-use spells can cast a Rune Spell for Rune Points and then use POW to target multiple members of the community with it, or should Rune Point use be regarded as separate from community multi-target casting?
Separate. Community multi-target casting is of the priest’s spells using POW.
Wyters, Spirit Magic and Magic Points
Wyters can also cast spirit magic?
Yes.
Their MPs seem standard (equal to POW).
Not exactly. Their points come from seasonal holy days and are capped at POW, and they cannot regenerate them. (see RQG page 287).
As the wyter casts Rune Magic, if their POW goes down, their chances of casting spirit magic goes down… is that intended? (big communities’ wyters probably rarely go down in POW enough to go below 95%, but it can matter for small wyters).
Yes. The thread you referenced by Jeff covers the Wyter POW economy.
Magic Points or POW
- A wyter is incapable of recovering its own magic points. Instead, the community worships the wyter and gives it magic points on the wyter’s season holy days.
page 287
And later:
- A wyter may receive sacrifices of characteristic POW from its members up to an upper limit based on the size and age of the community (see Wyter Size table).
page 287
Should I understand that both occurrences of the term “magic points” in the first sentence are meant to be “POW”? That is: a wyter generally spends its characteristic POW to cast spells, and in order to recover it, members of the community need to sacrifice their own POW to it?
No. When worshipped, a wyter receives magic points, it can cast spirit magic with those. It uses its POW to cast Rune magic.
Are there wyters with less than 50 worshippers?
It’s certainly possible to have one as the result of some calamity affecting its community.
Do wyters get weaker if they lose worshippers?
That will depend on the situation causing the loss. I can imagine a wyter that has lost its community and only has a few magic points left being rescued by adventurers.
What happens to a wyter if the number of their worshippers drops below 50?
Depends on its situation. In all of these cases use the guidance on page 11:
When playing and gamemastering in Glorantha, let your imagination go wild. Ignore that voice that demands rational thought and empirical data, and draw upon your unconscious fantasies. Draw upon dreams, folklore, and mythology.
Keeping it Fantastic, page 11
Are Wyter’s too strong?
Community | Members | POW | CHA |
---|---|---|---|
Minor Temple, Clan, or Regiment | 251–1,000 | POW 6D6+6 | CHA 4D6 |
That 42 POW Wyter could – on full moon days – cast a Shield 35 with Extension 5 on itself lasting 2 years (full moon doubles temporal spells). Next holy day, having been brought back up to 42 from worshippers, it can cast Shield 30 with Extension 5 for 2 years upon 25 members of the community. Next holy day, do it again or cast, for example Spirit Armor Enchantments. 30 points worth on 25 worshippers. Next holy day, make 30 point magic matrix enchantments on 25 items. Make 25 items each with 15 Mindblasts seems good. Will that work?
So you have a maximum POW wyter for your example, rather than the normal 27 POW, CHA 14. This is obviously SUPER-clan, whose wyter is some god.
Your wyter has 42 points of POW. In theory, it could blow 41 points of POW to cast Rune spells, but that is stupid unless this is a murder-hobo wyter. That wyter’s POW has all sorts of other functions, like being the spiritual force of the community, keeping hostile spirits out of the clan sacred lands, etc. Reducing the POW of the community spirit weakens your community – this should go without saying (and not something that should need clockwork mechanical things). Why are the other clan members going to give up their POW – their SOUL – just so that our rules-lawyer chieftain can feel super-swell?
Reduce your wyter to POW 1, and maybe just it gets captured by a hostile shaman. Maybe some weak hate ghost with POW 15 decides to take its vengeance. Maybe a ritual enemy that normally is obeisance now can manifest.
I mean the more I think about this, the more I would absolutely ruin a chief or high priest who tried to do this. You broke our ancestral god – OUR ANCESTRAL GOD! – to do what? Our clan is dying, we have kin slaughter and more than half the community left to form a new clan, so that you be invulnerable? We have summoned the assembly and have decided to strip you from that office so that we might survive.
If you spend 40 POW of that wyter, that wyter isn’t going to be terribly magically powerful until some big ceremony could be held to replenish its POW. If I was the GM, I’d probably say that needs to happen during Sacred Time or the high holy day of the wyter. This isn’t the sort of event that should be done casually.
In the meantime, that wyter is spiritually weak. Who cares if you have 40 nigh-invulnerable warriors for a year, if your wyter is gone. The cosmos tends to react strongly against rules-lawyers who abuse the spirit of the rules.
I for one would be very reluctant to let the wyter spend more than 10-15% of its POW without an existential threat to the community.
The max POW of a wyter is whatever the gamemaster decides is the appropriate limit for that particular wyter. The Ernaldori are a very powerful clan that has been around for three centuries. They are the royal clan of the oldest and most powerful Orlanth tribe in Dragon Pass. Normally its POW is 32, but if player characters want to sacrifice up to 10 points of their personal POW, they can increase it up to 42. But that is their call. As the GM, I’m not going to let NPCs do that for them.
I included enough on wyters in the Core rules so that people could include them in their games. The wyter rules are there so that that the gamemaster can use them in their game as a special resource and not to play mental exercises with about how those rules could be theoretically minimaxed by NPCs.
As I said, the rules were there to provide additional resources and ideas for gamemasters. If one of the player characters became the wyter-speaker (perhaps for a Heroquest), and in order to fulfill part of their quest they needed to create a few magical items with the wyter, I’d likely allow it. Because that is their function – they are a pool of POW and magic that might make all the difference in a dangerous quest, but at the risk of weakening the community’s magic.
Their function is not mass produce magical items or any such thing, and I really didn’t think I’d need even raise that point.
Often it is preferable just to get a concept out there, with the assumption that enough information is there that people can start including them in their games. And then we can wait a bit for a later opportunity to handle some of the deeper nuances. For 95% of the games, what is in the core rules about wyters is likely enough. The RQ Campaign Book gives an opportunity for a little GM facing nuance.
As an aside, that is a key bit of my own design philosophy. The rules are designed for modelling the player interaction with the setting – it is intended for running RPG games. They are not intended to be a clockwork machine running in the background, determining how NPCs interact with NPCs. Or as I have said on more than one occasion to my line editors – “The GM should not be rolling dice against themself!”
Here’s the Notes on Wyters section in the RQ Campaign book:
Notes on Wyters from the unpublished RQ Campaign book
Wyters are intended to be a potential resource for player characters and their community. The description of wyters in RuneQuest Glorantha (pages 286-287) provide a useful overview of wyters. A wyter is the spirit of a given community. Weakening the wyter weakens the community. When a wyter weakens itself through expenditure of points of POW to cast Rune spells, it weakens the spiritual health of the community. If the wyter reduces its POW by half, the community may begin to collapse. Additionally, the wyter must be persuaded that using the magic is appropriate for itself. No wyter will endanger its community simply to function as a rechargeable POW battery for its priest!
The wyter is responsible for the spiritual well-being of the community, and among its important roles are protecting the community from hostile spirits, vengeful ghosts, enemy gods, and more. Although such things trouble even those communities with a powerful wyter, this happens far more frequently when the wyter is weakened. Pity the doomed community whose wyter becomes weak enough to be defeated by an ordinary spirit or enemy shaman!
Although members of the community may sacrifice points of characteristic POW to the wyter, this is in practice more complicated than the RQG rules might suggest. Normally such sacrifices only occur on the high holy day of the wyter, although a kindly gamemaster might allow an adventurer to sacrifice a point of personal POW to prevent the wyter from being extinguished. It is perfectly reasonable for the gamemaster to only allow adventurers to make such sacrifices – perhaps that the wyter’s characteristics assume that other community members are already making whatever the sacrifices that community can be expected to make. Alternatively, the gamemaster may decide that any community that has been significantly weakened by the wyter’s loss of POW is too spiritually weak to sacrifice POW for the wyter unless that sacrifice comes from the player characters.
RQ Campaign book, unpublished, 2021
Wyters and Spirit Combat
Can Wyters attack in spirit combat, the rules seems unclear on this?
They are spirits, so yes. They could have magic, and would use that. If they are incarnated into physical forms, they can make physical attacks, also.
Wyters and Rune magic
The various books & corrections state very clearly that the wyter can cast any spell known by the attached priest.
Yes
The wyter can cast any Rune spell or spirit magic spell known by its priest (assuming the priest is within range of the wyter). A wyter spends points of its characteristic POW instead of Rune points when casting Rune spells, with a chance of success equal to its CHA×5.
RQG, page 286
Does that include spells learned from other cults via Spell Trading?
Yes (Including those taught by Exchange spells). Rune spells in this case use the original owner’s casting chance not CHAx5 and does pay the POW cost.
Would that include spells from enemy or hostile cults?
- No. Cults with Spell Trading and Exchange spells won’t be trading spells with enemy or hostile cults.
- Yes for those priests that have learned spells by chaotic means, such as Thanatar heads, etc.
It seems logical to me that since the wyter has cast the spell and the priest hasn’t, that the spell remains in the priest’s inventory/memory.
No, it’s gone. The spell specifically says: to trade a single use of any Rune spell. It makes no difference who casts it, the wyter’s priest, or any other being able to access the wyter’s priest’s spells, it’s a single use.
Similarly, can the wyter cast 1-use spells until it’s POW is gone (theoretically, of course)?
Yes, but it will not willingly use up all of its POW, and destroy itself.
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