Lunar Army discussions

[Jeff Richard]

An additional aside, the Lunar Empire does not have infinite military resources. Fazzur Wideread invaded the Holy Country in 1619 with more than 25,000 soldiers, or about a third of the total standing army of the Lunar Empire. That leaves relatively few units behind in Dragon Pass for occupation purposes.

When Tatius replaces Fazzur, his primary military goal becomes the completion of the New Lunar Temple, not dealing with petty tribal rebellions (a goal shared by the Red Emperor). Things get a lot tougher in 1624, when there is a full-fledged invasion by a new Pentan confederation that quickly overwhelms Oraya. And then the Dragonrise hits. It takes a good three years for the Lunars to make a major counter-offensive in Dragon Pass, but by then Argrath has dramatically changed the game.

[Harald Smith]

Quote:

the other Provincial rulers prefer to give money rather than soldiers to the wars in Dragon Pass. After the Dragonkill, it is likely far less than this – I doubt Aggar (whose ruler is going to be hard pressed to even remain in Eneal) and Vanch send anything to the Provincial Army, and Holay likely sends the bare minimum.

I used to wonder why there wouldn’t be more units from Holay, etc. in Provincial Army as well, but I think this makes sense. There’s undoubtedly a lot of positioning/rivalry amongst the more protected provinces for influence in the Provincial Administration particularly from Holay and Vanch for which they want the backing of their own troops. I think both these kingdoms have their eyes on carving up Imther, if possible, plus come up with excuses such as Balazaring/Troll raids or guarding against the Mad Sultanate. Sending money/tribute instead of troops is reasonable.

[Jeff Richard]

One thing that hopefully comes through is that the Lunar army built upon the pre-existing Dara Happan and Carmanian traditions (Stonewall Phalanxes and cataphracts) with a lot of light infantry from Pelanda. Several important regiments were founded directly by Yanafal Tarnils (the Silver Regiments of the Imperial Bodyguard), a few others by the Conquering Daughter, and then a bunch owe their origins to the wars against Sheng Seleris and the reconquest of the Arcos River. An ad hoc process, without a lot of systemization (besides who cares about efficient combined arms doctrine when you have the Lunar College of Magic and the Crimson Bat)!

[alcazar1578]

Great to see Dragon Pass as the baseline here. Lovely. Very much a portrait of the Lunar Army at a particular time and place. I concur with all your assumptions Jeff.
It’s clear from RQ2 that we know the Heartland of The Lunar Empire in the 7th wane is a place of peace and prosperity not a nation in arms. The Provincial Army does look more homogenous and businesslike – as it should, it’s been carrying the brunt of the actual fighting. But as far as the vast majority of the Empire is concerned, the final defeat of Rebellus Terminus is immanent.
As the Hero Wars unfold we can be sure things will change – war gods old and new will be called on to meet the challenges ahead. I’m sure there’s plenty of defunct, effectively moribund, or novel units that will get thrown into the meat grinder in the years ahead. I would be particularly interested to see if any regiments like the 6 missing Stonewall Phalanxes are revived – that’s a choice Lunar Hero Quest right there!
And as you point out, this doesn’t include the private armies of kings and satraps and leaves lots of room for vanity units.

[alcazar1578]

Would be helpful to also see the Founders and Gods of each regiment in these lists please.

[Simon Phipp]

What was the unit of cavalry that fought the Pentians in the Redlands called? I seem to remember something like Kastokos, based roughly on the Cossacks.

[Jeff Richard]

Kastok was a great early Second Age general from more than a thousand years ago. The settlers in the Redlands, however, are farmers, and do not form a heavily militarized society like the historical cossacks. Indeed, they’ve been able to settle the Redlands because the Pentans largely abandoned that area after the Nights of Horrors, and have only started to return in the last few years.

[Jeff Richard]

BTW, the army lists are not being written with any particular war game rules in mind, although I am pretty sure Andrew Taylor will adapt this for the Mad Knight miniatures rules.

[Jeff Richard]

Quote:

Quote from alcazar1578 on September 8, 2013, 18:10
Would be helpful to also see the Founders and Gods of each regiment in these lists please.

That’s actually a great idea.

Here’s a few off the top of my hat:
Imperial Bodyguard
Full Moon Corps: The Red Goddess
Bloodspillers: Yanafal Tarnils
Feathered Axe: Shargash
Grim Soldiers: Yanafal Tarnils
Hell Sisters: Jakaleel the Witch
Household Foot: Yanafal Tarnils
Mother’s Guard: Red Goddess

Heartland Corps
Beryl Phalanx: Urvairinus
Granite Phalanx: Polaris
Jasper Phalanx: Polaris
Marble Phalanx: Polaris
Raibanth Line: Polaris
Silver Shields: Hwarin Dalthippa
Steel Swords: Humakt/Yanafal Tarnils
Blessed Daughters: Red Emperor
Doblian Dogeaters:Sakkar
Lasadag Lions:Karndasal the Lion God
Yalamese: Hon-eel
Blue Dragoons: Hwarin Dalthippa
Red Dragoons: Hwarin Dalthippa
Standfast: Hon-eel

[Keith Nellist]

Unfortunately I’m feeling an urge to create a Lunar Army Monopoly theme. I mean, I need 22 properties and Jeff just listed 21 regiments and their gods.

[Chris Holden]

I’m excited by this army list… I’ve been waiting so long!

Do the various Phalanxes have regiment specific sub-cults of Polaris? They all worship Polaris except one… And I know it might have changed, or my memory might be faulty, but I thought they each had a separate cult like the Beryl Phalanx.

Chris

[Jeff Richard]

Quote:

Quote from Chris Holden on September 10, 2013, 02:09
I’m excited by this army list… I’ve been waiting so long!

Do the various Phalanxes have regiment specific sub-cults of Polaris? They all worship Polaris except one… And I know it might have changed, or my memory might be faulty, but I thought they each had a separate cult like the Beryl Phalanx.

Thanks – this is the sort of thing I’ve wanted to get out into print. Greg gave us copious notes about this (who am I kidding, the stack is about 16 inches thick!).

The various Stonewall Phalanxes worship Polaris as their founder. They are each guarded by a star up in the Celestial City, one of the officers of Polaris (who might be called the Granite Star or even Granite Phalanx by outsiders). The Beryl Phalanx notably reveres ancient Emperor Urvairinus as their founder. They also have a guardian star in the Celestial City.

Jeff

[Martin Helsdon]

Something that would add ‘character’ to the various regiments would be their traditional battle cries, which would display their historical/religious background. Such war cries are mentioned in the Iliad, and that was certainly an account of a war of heroes.

Both the Greeks and Akkadians are said to have uttered Alala as a war cry; for the Greeks it supposedly (and probably retrospectively) derived from the name of the daughter of Polemos, the daemon of war; she was a member of the entourage of Ares. The word for warrior is very similar.

“Harken! O Alala, daughter of war! Prelude of spears! To whom soldiers are sacrificed for their city’s sake in the holy sacrifice of death.” – Pindar – a fragment of Dithyrambs.

[Erick Eckberg]

Do you have any sort of Glorantha Wargaming rules set in mind, or are these purely informational in nature?

[Daniel McLaughlin]

Quote:

Quote from Jeff Richard on September 8, 2013, 13:16
Daniel – interesting estimates. However, Greg and I worked from a very different set of assumptions.

First, somewhat less than 1% of the population is formed into the standing army. That gets us about 65,000 soldiers from the Heartlands and Western Reaches, and about 14,000 soldiers in the Provincial Army at any time.

Second, each satrap/king maintains a private army that on average comes out to less than half a percent of the local population.

Total number of units for the Seventh Wane Lunar Army are approximately as follows:
38 regiments of infantry or about 36,500 infantry (some units are undersized, particularly from the Imperial Bodyguard).
28 regiments of cavalry or about 18,000 cavalry (some regiments are double sized, like the Char-un)
42 magical units or about 5,750 magicians

The reason I went for a bigger army than this is by comparing it with ancient armies though I know there is no reason that Gloranthan armies shouldn’t be smaller. I reckoned that if Ptolemy IV could use 70 000 infantry and 5000 cavalry at Raphia from a population of about 7 million that the Lunar Empire with a population similar to Ptolemaic Egypt should be able to field a similar army. This was a major effort by Ptolemy but didn’t constitute his whole army as he still had to defend his other frontiers.

Another good example of an army to look at is the Byzantine as it is pretty well documented. In the ninth century when the the empire consisted generally of what is now Turkey and Greece its army was 120 000 strong. This army is also interesting as we have the numbers for the different guards units of the tagamata – e.g. 4000 Excubitors (Sentinels – guards of the household), 4000 Hicanati (The Able Ones – elite guard), 4000 Numera, 4000 Optimates, 4000 Scholae. This army is from a population of about 8 million and is about 1.5%.

I think 1% of the population is possible if the Lunars feel pretty secure though in my estimate I went for an establishment of 2.5% and an actual strength of 1.8% as to my thinking the Lunars face quite a few threats and are also trying to expand south.

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