A few thoughts on Saird

[Jeff Richard]

Although many chieftains and temples in Saird had paid homage to the Conquering Daughter the changes and flux of barbarian tribal politics meant that her worship gained no permanent position in those lands until much later. Saird was completely lost to the Empire until some point after 1480 or so. Lunar rule in the Provinces was not secure until 1555, when the Provincial Government was formed.

And pretty much all Theyalans recognize the Orlanthi pantheon, especially the Seven Lightbringers and Ernalda.

As an aside, in the pre-modern world religious conversion worked a lot slower than you might think. Frex, it took some 250 years before al-Andalus was majority Muslim. I

[Harald Smith]

Quote:

a lot of this will seem awful familiar, but there have been some changes since we talked about this back in 1998 or so. Greg and I continued to work on Saird over the last fifteen years!

I’m sure that’s quite true! Most of my notes, etc. date back around 10+ years now.

[David Summers]

Quote:

Quote from Jeff Richard on September 5, 2013, 11:29
Although many chieftains and temples in Saird had paid homage to the Conquering Daughter the changes and flux of barbarian tribal politics meant that her worship gained no permanent position in those lands until much later. Saird was completely lost to the Empire until some point after 1480 or so. Lunar rule in the Provinces was not secure until 1555, when the Provincial Government was formed.

And pretty much all Theyalans recognize the Orlanthi pantheon, especially the Seven Lightbringers and Ernalda.

As an aside, in the pre-modern world religious conversion worked a lot slower than you might think. Frex, it took some 250 years before al-Andalus was majority Muslim. I

I agree on changing religions, that is about changing your ways. But I make a distinction between that and political allegiances. Given that peasants can worship the deities important to the, such as Barntar, hold to their old magics, and tend to not worry about politics, I think one should distinguish between these regions being culturally Alakoringite and caring ideologically about Orlanth driving the Red Moon out of the middle air.

And it is worth noting (to connect this with Saird 🙂 that Sylila had troops fighting “to aid the Empire against the greater barbarian invasion” 250 years ago. And I thought al-Andalus had Muslims and Christians fighting on both sides out of political allegiances and expediency.

In our campaign, Sartar has taken Furthest* and we decided it was a unhappy place where the Sartarites deal with the security and Lunar rebels. The hinterlands may not care what flag they are under, but that doesn’t help control the lowlands.

*Though technically the world is so messed up with a period where nobody died, but nobody healed their wounds, and no crops grew, that in fact there is a region between the Lunar empire and Sartar that neither side appears to have the resources to actually rule.

[Jeff Richard]

One of the many interesting maps in the Guide is Orlanth’s Sacred Mountains/Glowline map, which shows the areas in Central Genertela were Orlanth can easily be contacted (where it is possible to fly to Orlanth’s Mountain on holy days or on the High Holy Day). In Dragon Pass, South Peloria, and the Holy Country (as well as a number of other places), Orlanth is so magically manifest that outside of the Glowline (which extends at least 115 miles beyond a Temple of the Reaching Moon – more when there is no adverse resistance), the cult is simply impossible to extinguish.

Frex, beyond Eneal, Aggar is traditional Orlanthi with no Lunars worth speaking of. In Tarsh beyond Bagnot, you might as well be in Sartar. The Imther Mountains has one of Orlanth’s Sacred Mountains and no matte what you do, the cult keeps popping up in those hills.

Additionally, wherever you have Ernalda, you have Orlanth (and vice versa). So even if the local farmers publicly worship Barntar & Ernalda, Orlanth is present.

FWIW, term Alakoringite never appears in the Guide. After doing all the work on the Orlanthi of Ralios, Fronela, and Peloria, we concluded it was simply not a useful term. It might be more useful to divide between Kero Fin Orlanthi and Top of the World Orlanthi, but I think nobody actually does.

[Harald Smith]

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The Imther Mountains has one of Orlanth’s Sacred Mountains and no matter what you do, the cult keeps popping up in those hills.

Well that could certainly give it a much more Orlanthi feel/flavor than I ever gave to Imther (Orlanth often took on a Trickster/disruptive aspect instead in my works). But it could readily explain some of the dynamics such as the small ‘civil war’ I put in Imther around 1610ST.

[David Summers]

That really good map of the Lunar Empire (the file is “Lunar Map Final”, don’t know what its officially called) that put up for down load shows the Glowline as covering most of the cities and lowlands of Tarsh (isn’t Bagnot the last city before you leave Tarsh?), but I guess that does say that the hinterlands are really “Orlanthi”. I could see Aggar being taken over by the Sartarites without much fuss and when I look at the map, the areas inside the glow line all look like places that would object to Satarite “liberators”.

BTW, so how do you refer the cultural similarities between other “Orlanthi” areas and someplace like Esrolia, “Theyalan”? (Both what you said and Greg’s comments on the wind stop affecting Esrolia imply to me that the Esrolian POV is “wrong”, but aren’t all the cultures POVs suppose to be valid? Or does the guide take the view that an Orlanthi view is the one that is fundamentally right)?

[Jeff Richard]

The Esrolians are Orlanthi. From the Guide:

Ernalda (Esrolia, in the Holy Country): The land of Esrolia, one of the densest population regions in the world, is a land of the Earth Goddess. The grandmothers and queens maintain a dominant place in the political, religious, and social orders. There the men follow a wider variety of cults which are accessible as husband figures, including Argan Argar, and a local version of Yelmalio, although Orlanth is still the most favored husband and the major Orlanthi deities are just as important as in other Orlanthi lands.

[Harald Smith]

Quote:

The Imther Mountains has one of Orlanth’s Sacred Mountains and no matter what you do, the cult keeps popping up in those hills.

I’ve noted this central mountain on the AAA guide as well. Is there a name for it and any new myths worked out around it?

[Jeff Richard]

Here’s what is known about it:
It’s about 9500 feet tall (making it about 1000 feet shorter than Mount Lassen or a few hundred feet higher than Mount Bachelor, for reference).
It is sacred to Orlanth and a well-established place of power for the cult. It is the cult center for the Orlanthi of Vanch and Imther.
Beneath it is the ancient dwarf mine of Den era Dala Vo (now just called Imther Mountain dwarves), which is subordinate (and likely connected to) the Gateway complex. There are almost as many dwarves in the complex as there are humans in Imther.
It’s name, and rune, is unknown to me as of yet.

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