Wyters in RQ

[Jon Hunter]

Are there any rules out there for wyters in RQ rather than heroquest?

Also when a community is created, is the wyter created, summoned or appropriated from available spirits?

[Jeff Richard]

1. No. The only published RQ example of a wyter (not called that) was the Guardians of the Four Directions in Sun County.

2. All of the above. And more.

[David Scott]

You might find this recent thread from the World of Glorantha list of interest.

Becoming a Wyter Mar 13 2014

Hi folks,

I read somewhere, generally any stable community – no matter the size – can have a wyter.

I am obliged to let the adventuring fellowship in my game have a wyter, a now dead founding member of that party. Searching the net, you find good explanations and examples for wyters, but never for _becoming_ one!
All sort of questions arise. (I know, good GMs always advise: Whatever suits your game! But in this case I would cling a bit more to
“standards” if there are any, so I can rely on some…)

Qs:
– Can this just happen? “Hello, I’m still here, now I am your wyter!” or what kind of ceremony do we need?
– His lifetime feats and deeds define his powers. But how much of the original personality persists? Does he even have an attitude or manners?
– Memory. Does he remember his life?
– Manifestation. I would go for lifetime possessions. Even his remains?
– Who can communicate? Somewhere I read only the chief can do with a clan wyter, I read different elsewhere.
– I understand a wyter may (and usually will) accept new members to the community. Could there be disagreement between group and wyter? For what results? Will a rejected one simply not benefit? (Naturally, my travelling group of adventures is not culturally as uniform as a clan is.)
– A clan member outside the tula would not benefit from a clan wyter. What is the scope/reach of a band wyter?
Any hints?
Pomeroi

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My answers, inline.

On 13 Mar 2014, at 14:40, Pomeroi wrote:

> Qs:
> – Can this just happen? “Hello, I’m still here, now I am your wyter!” or
> what kind of ceremony do we need?

It’s unlikely to just happen, there’d have to be some strong magic around, and some sort of community-building event. But if they were HeroQuesting it could happen.

> – His lifetime feats and deeds define his powers. But how much of the original personality persists? Does he even have an attitude or manners?

Very variable, but I’d guess that if he hasn’t been dead for very long he’d probably keep a lot of that.

> – Memory. Does he remember his life?

See above.

> – Manifestation. I would go for lifetime possessions. Even his remains?

Maybe. It’s going to be something with strong links to the original, whatever it is.

> – Who can communicate? Somewhere I read only the chief can do with a clan wyter, I read different elsewhere.

Probably the community head, possibly someone gets a special position that lets them do it, possibly everyone.

> – I understand a wyter may (and usually will) accept new members to the community. Could there be disagreement between group and wyter? For what results? Will a rejected one simply not benefit? (Naturally, my travelling group of adventures is not culturally as uniform as a clan is.)

I think that would depend on why the outsider was rejected. One of the more “personal” wyters could act against somebody they really hate, I think.

> – A clan member outside the tula would not benefit from a clan wyter. What is the scope/reach of a band wyter?

I think that’s going to depend on the community. I’d tend to give a similar (but probably shorter) range from wherever the centre of the community – whatever that is – happens to be.

Paul King

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I’d say it can happen. It would be quite precarious, if any of the members have any doubts or cynicism over having the guy as a wyter then that would severely weaken or sever the relationship. Which in a typical roleplaying group means it’s pretty rare! If the group dynamic has always been “robust”, by which I mean “fractious”, but they always overcame the differences to triumph in the end, then that would continue. For instance if Roy in OOTS died and became the group wyter, then Belkar’s unruly cynicism would not threaten the wyter bond as that’s part of the established group dynamic.

Phil Hibbs

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Alright,

thanks Paul and Phil. Only one more: What is the “act” to _become_ a wyter?

Some background about my plan, in case this seeds ideas…

The character in question is still alive, a PC who turned NPC because the player left. I want to let him die heroically and then let him be wyter. The perfect character, as he would not like to be resurrected anyway (Humakti), always had been the protective one for the others…

Pomeroi

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I don’t think that there is an act to _become_ a wyter, just acts that will (are likely to) _get_ a wyter,

So, suppose this character dies heroically, saving the others. The survivors hold a memorial service of some sort and all swear brotherhood etc etc in memory of him, with sacred oaths. That MIGHT be enough. If they vow to be a Hero Band, protecting the weak as he did, then so much the better. The wyter is a guardian spirit of a _community_ (considered in a broad sense). Forming a community, in a magically significant way is pretty much essential to getting one.
Paul King

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In King of Sartar, there is mention of a “Foundation Ritual”, that is used to form a clan. Part of founding a clan is gaining a wyter.
In more than one example, a living person has provided a specific otherworld being to be the wyter and, after that person’s death, the wyter is ‘proven’ to be part of their soul and the dead person takes over as wyter. Wilmkirk and Jonstown are the two examples that I (possibly mis) remember.
For communities smaller than a clan, I would imagine a cut-down version of the Foundation ritual is used. Similarly, when a community decides it needs to replace its wyter (eg. conversion from balance to war and back), then I guess a similar ReFoundation Ritual is used.
Charles Corrigan

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You may also want to take a look at Arcane Lore in the Stafford Library series. Although much of the contents ideas are dated and superseded, there is the Wyter Heroquest on page 96 that give you some inspiration.
David Scott

[boztakang]

As a slightly different take, I would say that any persistent group probably has a wyter wether they are able to contact it or not. For small or informal groups, the spirit is probably so insignificant that you could not contact it if you wanted to, and even for large and powerful groups, it may be difficult to find the “right” spirit amongst all those that could be hanging about.

Identifying and embracing a specific wyter will create a feedback loop of sorts between the Wyter and the Group, as each affects the other’s growth and development. The more a group magically focuses on its “group-ness” through ritual activities and worship the stronger and more discernable the Wyter becomes. In turn, as the spirit of group becomes stronger, it will exert influence on how the group behaves, and who it accepts as members, and what sorts of activities the group is likely to get up to.

So, in theory, “becoming” a wyter is as simple as being recognized as “the sprit of our group” – In the case of “pre-existing” sprits and groups, there will almost certainly be significant magical and cognitive resistance to overcome, and thus some sort of creation ritual or other defining event will be necessary. There could also be some period of adjustment as the spirit and the community adapt to each other. If the match is good, the spirit and community will naturally reinforce and strengthen each other, if it is poor, either the spirit will stop responding to community members, or the community will disband and become something else (or both)

[Jon Hunter]

To make my question a little more specific, if a community is setting up in a wild place, would the communication with local nymph(in this case a river nymph), be able to develop a relationship with the nymph as wyter?

I would see the nature of the spirit changing over time as the community grow and the land become less wild, but its an interesting shortcut to a relativity powerful wyter right at the start, it also puts the new community in harmony with its surroundings very early on.

However if the process goes wrong it puts the community on war footing with its natural surroundings 🙂

[Charles]

In my opinion, the stated requirements of the community, particularly these of the leader of the Foundation Ritual, are what determine the nature of the Wyter. If the community and leader have predetermined which entity they want as a Wyter and that entity is available and willing then, if the ritual succeeds, they get the Wyter they choose. If the ritual fails then the community is not truly formed and the members, particularly the leader may suffer penalties, up to and including death.

If they do not have a predetermined entity in mind then the community requirements are stated during the ritual and then one or more relevant entities that more or less meet these requirements present themselves for a ‘beauty contest’. The community leader then gets to choose the Wyter that appears to best meet their needs.

[Harald Smith]

Quote:

To make my question a little more specific, if a community is setting up in a wild place, would the communication with local nymph(in this case a river nymph), be able to develop a relationship with the nymph as wyter?

Years ago I ran an RQ campaign in Imther where the PC’s were part of a new community in the wild and discovered the local river nymph. They formed a relationship with the river spirit, though it was not as a Wyter, but as a local, allied magical entity.
Potentially, it could have become a Wyter, though I don’t think it would have suited the PC’s or the community. There’s a line between what I’d term a spirit cult (minor worship/propiation/etc. of the spirit in return for a blessing, magic, etc.) and a Wyter. In the former, individuals interact with the nymph/spirit and get certain benefits but it’s largely at the individual level. With the latter, I think as Charles noted, the nymph or spirit has to be central to the community – in essence, she IS the community and its collective spirit.
The Wyter is the bond by which the community comes together. A group of fishers living by the river, making their living from the river, might well bond around the river and its nymph. She would then manifest as their collective consciousness in many senses and would provide blessings (good fishing perhaps) and some community defense (hide/breathe in water) or awareness (know what’s coming down river). The community is dedicated to the life of the river in return and their actions should be consistent with what the Wyter expects. The Wyter would expect the community to remain in the same area (or at least along the river), to perhaps share and judge everything equally (no drop of water is greater than any other), etc.

[boztakang]

Quote:

Quote from Harald Smith on April 3, 2014, 00:33
…

nailed it, imo.

[Dan Barker]

I remember (vaguely as we all were very, very drunk and decided to freeform it) MOB ran an adventure where the players were a troop of Lunar conscripts who create their regimental wyter, the standard to which we all aspire. It worked very well, and made me think players should be invested in their clan wyter as a major NPC.

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