Purchasing Grimoires in Chargen

[Niall]

So I have an initiate of x and he’s is allowed a grimoire.

Is the Grimoire one of your nine attributes or does it cost one point from your twenty points that you get to spend?

I’m looking at the Pavis book and it’s not that clear. The Strong Stone Mason seems to get them for free on page 19 whilst the arrogant Librarian sends a point from her twenty.

[David Scott]

Basically Flintnail is a wizardry cult, so the Grimoire is free. Lhankor Mhy is a mainly a theistic cult with some Wizardry hanging off the Law rune if you have it. You have to pay for the extra. In all cases you have to pay hero points to purchase grimoires in game.

Is your initiate part of a Wizardry cult or part of a theistic or spirit cult that in some cases gets wizardry?

I’ve put the two characters in the wiki with build points, including some minor errata:

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/building-makor-the-strong-for-pavis-gateway-to-adventure/
http://www.glorantha.com/docs/building-jorjar-latish-for-pavis-gateway-to-adventure/

and I’ve included below a reply I made on the World of Glorantha list that I made, that hopefully will clarify it further.

On 6 Apr 2012, at 23:40, Mark wrote:

> I notice that some of the sample characters in Pavis seem to receive their Grimoire ratings as part of their keywords (Makor as part his Stonemason and Citizen of the Real City, Tolkazi as part of his Moon Rune) , yet the description on pg 365 and the HeroQuest rulebook both state that the Grimoire ability is itself a keyword. Of course, Lunars always are a bit weird, but that still leaves the others:) Was this an oversight? My big, fat guess is that it is in Makor’s case, but I’m less certain about Tolkazi’s.
>
> (Jorgar also gets hers as part of her Law rune rating of course, but we already know how that works.)

No, both are deliberate. Makor gets his grimoire rating from his Stonemason keyword, any spells are of course breakouts. The Flintnail grimoire is inherently tied to the stonemason profession. Tolkazzi’s grimoire rating is from his Full moon phase, there was a slight jiggle in the final character sheet to fit it in, so it should look like this:

What the Eye does not see (illusion/full moon phase) 1W Irripi Ontor Moon Phase
(illusion) The object that does not exist
etc

Grimoires can be be keywords, but not in these cases. One of my aims with the characters was to show how the system can be adapted, changed and mixed up.

[Niall]

Cheers, it’s come up in a game that is about to start, where a character is a Lunar soldier, an Initiate of Yanfal Tarnils, who wants a grimoire.

[David Scott]

I’d say that he’d have to buy it as Yanafal is mostly a fighty scary cult with a bit of wizardly death and terror available.

[Charles]

One of my players is developing a Lankhor Mhy character and the question of how he learns sorcery has come up. The alternatives discussed were:

He puts each spell as a specialisation under the character’s law rune affinity; or

He buys a Torvald Fragments Grimoire keyword and gets 4 spells as ‘free’ specialisations of that.

After some thought, I decided that he must purchase the Grimoire as, otherwise, it is much easier for him to learn spells than it is for a full blown student of wizardry. Is there anything that I missed?

[David Scott]

You are correct, you can’t break out spells without a grimoire. Normally Grimoires don’t hang off a rune, unless they are weird Lhankor Mhy or Lunar Wizards. Grimoires are free standing and are associated with a rune(s). Those likely to be good at Wizardry would likely have the law rune and augment their spells with it. For an example of a free standing grimoire, look at Togazzi the Shadow in Pavis: Gateway to Adventure, page 20. He has a a Lunar Grimoire called “What the Eye Does Not See”.

You can buy spells individually, not part of a grimoire, but also not part of a keyword. However they start at 13 and must be individually raised. Look at Makor the Strong http://www.glorantha.com/docs/building-makor-the-strong-for-pavis-gateway-to-adventure/. He has two Dwarf spells he learnt that way.

[Matthias Hunger]

A question came up in our group, as my Lhankor Mhy Sage now got his grubby paws on an Alien Combination Machine and several dozen tomes, several of them in all likelihood grimoires, so now it is time to learn sorcey: according to the core rulesbook (and the Pavis book), you get 4 spells when first learning/acquiring the grimoire, and can only learn new ones once you reached mastery in that grimoire. Easy enough for sorcerers, who have free standing grimoires as independent keywords/magic abilities, but what about the theistic weirdos like Lhankor Mhys or Lunars, who have grimoires as breakout abilities of a rune? Is the requirement then “moon/truth rune rating + grimoire rating = one mastery”, or is it “grimoire rating one mastery higher than the rune rating”? I would argue the first, as otherwise it is nearly impossible for them to ever actually master a grimoire (unlike a free standing grimoire for a sorcerer, the count would not start at 13 for a new ability, but at zero, requiring 42 hero points to increase the rating of the grimoire to one mastery above the rune rating).

[David Scott]

Lhankor Mhy initiates must hang grimoires off their Law Rune (to use the ACM). The grimoires don’t get a rating. Have a look at Building Jorjar Latish for Pavis: Gateway to Adventure as mentioned above: Building Jorjar Latish for Pavis: Gateway to Adventure: http://www.glorantha.com/docs/building-jorjar-latish-for-pavis-gateway-to-adventure/

It’s most likely that your player has got his Law rune over 21 already. The ACM lets him understand the grimoire, giving him the ability to buy more spells. Four spells are free in character generation, afterwards it’s one point per spell just like everything else.

Bear in mind that sorcery has the most ways to break it out: from Keywords (Rune, Occupation, Culture, Cult, Grimoire) and individually. From Grimoire is the most limiting of the keyword ones. Look at Building Makor the Strong for Pavis: Gateway to Adventure as mention above: http://www.glorantha.com/docs/building-makor-the-strong-for-pavis-gateway-to-adventure/

Makor hangs his spells of his occupation and cultural keywords. The Dwarf spells are specials so done individually.

[Matthias Hunger]

Ok, thanks. I somewhat muddied the waters by talking about getting and improving grimoires during play rather than at chargen, but (for me at least) things now are clear. Thanks again.

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