Heler in Prax; or theistic elemental summoning

[skoll]

I have a new character in my group, a devoted initiate of Heler, who has come to preach the good word to the dry lands of Prax. Now, Heler has abandoned the Water Tribe, so I assume, that his relations with Zola Fel aren’t exactly friendly. (That again, I assume, that Zola Fel tolerates Heler presence because of the rains it brings.)

Now the question: Should the Heler initiate be able to summon undines normally out of the waters of Zola Fel? My thinking behind this is, that undines loyal to the Water Tribe don’t necessarily want to help a Heler worshipper.

On the other hand – are the undines summoned by a theist really intelligent? Can they actully challenge the summoner? Or am I mixing animistic and theistic elemental summoning here? Or, to continue this line of thought, even if according to RAW the elementals summoned by theists are mindless, in Glorantha, should undines summoned by a Heler worshipper be mindless or intelligent spirits?

Crossposted at http://designmechanism.freeforums.org/heler-in-prax-or-theistic-elemental-summoning-t423.html

[Peter Metcalfe]

I think Helerings cannot summon undines out of any river and that their undines are summoned from the rainfall. An exception is that Heler is the father of the Engizi River in Dragon Pass and so would be able to summon undines from it.

As for the Water Tribe, that’s Orlanthi mythology and Zola Fel not being part of the Water Tribe wouldn’t care.

Elementals in RQ are unintelligent. In HQ2, they would be Godlings or Spirits or Realized Forms. If my understanding of Xeotam’s metaphysics is correct (always a big if), Elementals in the RQ sense of mindless entities would be summonable from the primal sources of that element (like say Sramake for Undines). A Helering can still do this but its going to be a more complicated summoning (and recitation of genealogy) than it would be if he were to summon a Helering Godling (which would have the personality and powers of Heler).

[David Scott]

No. Looking at the bigger picture, you have two different groups here. Heler is part of the Orlanthi pantheon and Zola Fel is part of the Praxian tradition. Heler doesn’t exist in the Wastelands (although Orlanth Adventurous does and is part of the Praxian tradition). The easiest way to do this would be to join the cult of Zola Fel, or get a Zola Fel elemental charm – but as a Devotee this can’t work. (wasn’t sure of your terminology devoted initiate?). If an initiate with the water rune – he could dive right in.

Unless he gets a connection to Zola Fel it won’t work – that sounds like the start of an adventure.

As for elementals, they are all basically the same just tied to a different source. In a mixed religion like the Praxians, elementals are mixed source as spirit practitioners and theists in the religion can summon them with no difference.

[skoll]

Thanks for the answers.

Quote:

wasn’t sure of your terminology devoted initiate?

Initiate ~ (RQ) cult rank
Devoted ~ serious about the faith

Having Heler and Zola Fel neutral toward each other instead of hostile does make my life easier. (Even though I was a bit confused to read, that Zola Fel, being allied to the Ocean of Terror, doesn’t consider Heler a renegade.)

As to the other part of the question, I decided, that my Glorantha and RQ will vary. In other words, the Helering will be able to summon elementals out of the waters of Zola Fel. When summoning, he will call the elemental essence from the divine realm and bind it to the mundine water. And even though Zola Fel the god is the river, I decided, that not every drop of the river is part of the god’s body. But I will persuade the Helering to join also the Zola Fel cult.

The undines summoned by the Helering will be unintelligent and easily manipulated. On the other hand, elementals summoned by an animist (I have also a Kolating in the group) are always (more or less) intelligent spirits, who can go beyond being just muscle or fodder in battle, but might also require negotiating with. In other words, they act more like NPC’s.

[Jeff Richard]

If I was going to have a Heler cultist from Dragon Pass try to summon or command the waters of the Zola Fel, I’d require her to first travel to the Boathouse Ruins in the Rockwood Mountains and try to prove she is the Source of Waters for Zola Fel. That would mean retracing the Zola Fel’s path through the Desolation Hills, into the Redwood Forest (surviving ambush by elves), and through the Shadowlands (with trolls and dehori, oh my!) until finally making it to the Boathouse Ruins.

[Niall]

Quote:

Quote from Jeff Richard on January 13, 2014, 09:47
If I was going to have a Heler cultist from Dragon Pass try to summon or command the waters of the Zola Fel, I’d require her to first travel to the Boathouse Ruins in the Rockwood Mountains and try to prove she is the Source of Waters for Zola Fel. That would mean retracing the Zola Fel’s path through the Desolation Hills, into the Redwood Forest (surviving ambush by elves), and through the Shadowlands (with trolls and dehori, oh my!) until finally making it to the Boathouse Ruins.

I love this.

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