Glorantha cultures: cross-pollination and changes over time

[Jeff Richard]

As I continue to do research and background work on the Gods of Glorantha, from time to time I’ll post notes that I think might be interesting to at least some of you. One of things I try to keep in mind as I write about Glorantha is that cultures cross-pollinate and change over time. This even has an impact of Gloranthan cults – the cults of Yelm and Orlanth have changed over Time.

Cultures don’t exist in isolation. Many Gloranthan cultures have centuries of communication and cross-pollination. In Peloria, the Orlanthi tribes have looked to Dara Happa for the trappings of status and authority since the days of the Bright Empire. By the mid-Second Age, the material culture (clothing, weapons, architecture, visual art) of the rulers of Talastar, Sylila, and Terarir was more similar to that of Dara Happa than to Dragon Pass; however, those areas continued to worship Orlanth and speak Theyalan language. A traditionalist Orlanthi chieftain of Talastar might well wear a long robe that extends to his feet and curl his beard like a Dara Happan nobleman. This is true even if he despises Dara Happa and the Lunar Emperor – since that is what a ruler should look like.

In the Third Age, this extended to all of South Peloria after the Dragonkill. Jannisor was perfectly acceptable to the Dara Happan nobility as a warlord against the Red Emperor – despite being a hill tribesman who worshiped the Rebel Gods. Ingakotum, the Lord of the River and most powerful of Sylilan chiefs, wore clothes and carried weapons that were indistinguishable from that of a Dara Happan aristocrat – indeed they might have been made there! The Pelorian Orlanthi have adopted the prefixes and suffixes of Dara Happa (marking gender and status), and the written prefixes for gods and heroes was incorporated into Theyalan script in the First Age.

In the Holy Country and Maniria, there was no direct Dara Happan influence for several centuries. Instead, those lands look to Esrolia for the trappings of status and authority. Wrap-around skirts which are above the knee for men, pleated or fluted skirts which are down to the ankles for women, exposed breasts, makeup, nudity, and bright colors are all signs of status and wealth.  Based on clothing, appearance, and material culture, it is difficult to tell the difference between an Esrolian and a Hendriking (I’ve heard you really have to look carefully at the tattoos). The cults of Ernalda, Lhankor Mhy, Issaries, and Chalana Arroy all look to Esrolia as the home of their gods (or at least the place of their greatest temples). Those Hendrikings who settled Dragon Pass (and later became Sartarites) brought that culture with them – and continued to look to the Holy Country for the trappings of status and authority.

With the Lunar Conquest of Sartar, many Sartarite rulers have adopted the material culture of the Lunar Empire (while rejecting its Red Goddess). A traditionalist Colymar chieftain might dress the same as a Tarshite noble, while rebelling against the Lunar Empire at the same time!

 

[Charles]

I suspect that there are also cultural flows from Dragon Pass to Dara Happa, though perhaps less so in the 3rd Age. The Orlanthi dominated Dara Happa for periods in the 1st Age and in the 2nd Age.
I’m guessing that one of the reasons for the success of the new religious approach of the Red Goddess is that the middle classes and lower classes of Dara Happa and it’s hinterland appreciated some aspects of the very personal Orlanthi religious practices, as compared to the extremely hierarchical practices of the Solar cults.

[Martin Helsdon]

Quote:

With the Lunar Conquest of Sartar, many Sartarite rulers have adopted the material culture of the Lunar Empire (while rejecting its Red Goddess). A traditionalist Colymar chieftain might dress the same as a Tarshite noble, while rebelling against the Lunar Empire at the same time!

The general style might be the same, but choice of color, decoration and accoutrements might differ? A Tarshite might recognise plenty of signs that the Sartarite is merely aping Imperial dress and obviously a barbarian, much as a citizen of Classical Athens would see a Macedonian as ‘Greek’ but not really ‘Greek’ and showing distinct uncouth Thracian influences.

[Jeff Richard]

Yes, and in many cases this is just aping the symbols and appearances of the rulers. What might be important is the length of the tunic or robe, and the curled beard – but otherwise the cloth used and embroideries are traditional for that clan. And so on. Lots of barbaric splendor in the mountain kingdoms!

[David Summers]

Interesting article. While I think Dara Happan Cultural influence was never big in Dragon Pass, it is interesting to note that both are probably moving closer together as they are influenced by a third culture, Lunar cultures (which probably is mostly bringing in Carmanian, Pelendan, etc. influences).

[David Summers]

A tangential question. I do understand that in Esrolia, going bear breasted is something those with status do. Regarding how this applies to a character who is moderate level member in an important family. My impression is that if you walk the streets of Notchet, you only see bear breasted women now and then? So that fashion is restricted to the top 10%? Top 1%?

[Jeff Richard]

Quote:

Quote from David Summers on April 18, 2014, 21:59
Interesting article. While I think Dara Happan Cultural influence was never big in Dragon Pass, it is interesting to note that both are probably moving closer together as they are influenced by a third culture, Lunar cultures (which probably is mostly bringing in Carmanian, Pelendan, etc. influences).

I suspect Dara Happan culture was last truly influential in Dragon Pass in the late First Age (in the Bright Empire), then not at all until settlers from Saird brought it with them (the settlement of Tarsh).

When I say “Dara Happan culture” I don’t mean the cults, rites, ideology, or spoken language – I mean simply material culture. Clothes, architecture, pottery styles, metalworking styles, etc. Those with wealth who want to show status (or want to be able to get gifts and other luxury goods from Dara Happa) ape the Dara Happa nobility in appearance – even if they war against them.

The same thing was true in the Real World. Germanic kings east of Rhine or north of the Danube adopted the “look” of Rome (there’s a nice exhibit on that in the Neus Museum in Berlin). Epirote, Thracian, and Illyrian kings adopted the “look” of Greece (and even called themselves Hellenes, but nobody was really fooled). Libyan and Nubian warlords in Egypt adopted the styles of Thebes and Memphis.

[Jeff Richard]

Quote:

Quote from David Summers on April 18, 2014, 22:09
A tangential question. I do understand that in Esrolia, going bear breasted is something those with status do. Regarding how this applies to a character who is moderate level member in an important family. My impression is that if you walk the streets of Notchet, you only see bear breasted women now and then? So that fashion is restricted to the top 10%? Top 1%?

To start with, Nochet is a semitropical city. Nudity or near-nudity is fairly common. Various occupations are likely practiced with very few clothes – manual labor, fishing, certain types of dancers, etc – and the very poor often wear little more than a loin cloth.

Priestesses of Earth Goddesses wear a tight bodice that is opened to reveal her breasts and a flounced and pleated bell-shaped skirt. Other high status women often wear a close-fitting tube dress, sewn at the side, that is held up by two straps that attached behind the neck. The straps come together at the front and expose her breasts. The dress is made of fine linen or even silk and might be brightly dyed or nearly transparent.

Less important women don’t have access to fine linen or silk, and often wear their dress a little higher.

A byproduct of this (and the semitropical climate) is also a focus on cleanliness and hygiene.The residents of Nochet regularly bath, wear sweet-smelling perfumes, and consider the Praxians and Tarshites to be “smelly barbarians”.

[David Summers]

“When I say “Dara Happan culture” I don’t mean the cults, rites, ideology, or spoken language”

I’m not sure why these would be exempt, though basic beliefs are probably more “resitant”. Actually, I think the worship Orlanth/Worship the Moon Goddess dichotomy is probably inaccurate. I think most people mostly worship they Sky Bear, or some other local god that meets their needs, more than anything else.

[David Summers]

OK, for Esrolian fashions, bare breasts are common. Presumably, since the women aren’t _all_ bare breasted, it sounds like that it is considered a minor matter and varies based on just this reason and that.

A couple of questions on you reply…
“a close-fitting tube dress, sewn at the side, that is held up by two straps that attached behind the neck”
Not sure you mean by “sewn at the side” unless it just means the seam is on the side?

Also, a lot of skirts seem “hour glass” or “bell” shaped which I take to mean they are relatively tight at the knees? Presumably that is based on status, ie whether the women has to walk a lot to make a living…

[Jeff Richard]

Yes, the dress is sewn together at the side. Like a kalasiris.

Bell-shaped means tight at the waist, then expanding out like a bell. Like this:
http://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/190/flashcards/305190/png/a1330329026270.png

And yes, a woman who wears a skirt like that does not have to do a lot of manual labor for a living (at least when she is wearing that skirt!). It is a sign of status and wealth.

[David Summers]

Quote:

Quote from Jeff Richard on April 19, 2014, 12:37
Yes, the dress is sewn together at the side. Like a kalasiris.

Bell-shaped means tight at the waist, then expanding out like a bell. Like this:
http://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/190/flashcards/305190/png/a1330329026270.png

And yes, a woman who wears a skirt like that does not have to do a lot of manual labor for a living (at least when she is wearing that skirt!). It is a sign of status and wealth.

Thanks. One last question. The Kalsiris is an Egyptian garment? We have been told to read Pharaoh as a world used to indicate he was a “god king” rather than that “Esrolian is like Egypt”? So I’m assuming that the intent of Kalsiris is because Esrolia has an Egyptian like climate (though presumably wetter) are derived clothing rather than a culture based on Egypt.

[Martin Helsdon]

Quote:

The Kalsiris is an Egyptian garment?

A fairly simple linen dress, but with a very fine weave, making it practical for a hot climate.

Quote:

We have been told to read Pharaoh as a world used to indicate he was a “god king” rather than that “Esrolian is like Egypt”?

Pharaoh derives from something like per-o, meaning ‘big house’ – palace. I believe the use of pharaoh in the context of the Holy Country is no longer canonical.

[Jeff Richard]

Yes, Greg had believed “pharaoh” meant “god king” – that was what Greg was trying to convey with the title. Since it does not mean that, we dropped the use of the word (since it comes with all sorts of other baggage and doesn’t actually convey the basic point wanted). Belintar’s title is now simply God-King.

[Martin Helsdon]

Quote:

Greg had believed “pharaoh” meant “god king”

The Ancient Egyptian would be something like Ity Neter – sovereign deity, which was never used as a title of Pharaoh. 😀

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