Etymology of “Lunar” Empire?

[alcazar1578]

I may be missing something here, but do we know the etymology and history for the origin of the word “Lunar” in Glorantha? It’s never referred to as the Rufelzan Empire…

[Keith Nellist]

Surely it just means Lunar just means “of the Moon”: the Empire of the Moon.

[Emmanuel Ponette]

‘Lune’ in french means ‘moon’. ‘Luna’ in latin.

[alcazar1578]

Gloranthan cosmology does not have a moon called Luna. Also, the Red Moon does not rise until the Apotheosis of the Red Goddess in 0/27 (1247). In reviewing the Redline History I’m finding the followers of the Red Goddess already referred to as Lunars by 0/8 (1228). The Dance of Returns results in the creation of new celestial body inside time, without precedence and with ramifications that are structurally built into Glorantha and Hero Quest. It just struck me as odd that there seems to be nothing(as yet)clearly published on where the Gloranthan name “Lunar”, capitol L, comes from. Did I miss this discussion at some point?

[Emmanuel Ponette]

Luna is not the name, just the way to say it. it could have been the Moonar! 😉

But you are right, why Lunar (ie linked to a moon) before the moon was even there. Good question indeed.

[Roko Joko]

Lunar and solar are English translations of words in Gloranthan languages meaning of or related to the/a moon/sun. It’s capitalized in English not because the word itself is a name but because it’s used within a place name.

I don’t feel like it’s important to take the word too seriously. It would be easy to say they call it Rufelzan – which I think is a nice idea – or whatever you want. The people who run it probably have multiple names for it anyway, and different groups probably call it different things anyway (like Germany/Deutschland etc.)

Another way to answer a question about etymology is to look at this early map
http://moondesign.glorantha.com/blog/jeff/greater-lunar-empire
and say it’s called the Lunar empire because there’s a huge crater in the middle of it.

It’s interesting to wonder whether the early Lunars considered their new goddess to be a moon goddess before she created the red moon. It’s not hard to imagine that they had visions or saw things on the Other Side.

Even if they didn’t, you can still call them Lunars in hindsight.

[alcazar1578]

The term ‘Lunar Empire’ obviously goes back as far as ‘White Bear and Red Moon’. It seems odd that with all the ink spilled explaining Gloranthan estoria there isn’t a story here. It seems an adjective without source or attribution. There seems to be both internal and external consistency for the term – even the Sartarites call them Lunars not Shepelkirti.
Solar is an adjective used consistently in the GtG to describe sun worshippers, and sun mythology but did the Dara Happans ever refer to themselves inside Time as the Solar Empire? One could even make an argument that Solar actually refers to Arachne Solara and the ‘natural’ order of the cosmos.

[alcazar1578]

”

Quote:

Quote from Roko Joko on September 6, 2013, 14:18
Lunar and solar are English translations of words in Gloranthan languages meaning of or related to the/a moon/sun. It’s capitalized in English not because the word itself is a name but because it’s used within a place name.”

Not sure I’m completely happy with the “because it’s a translation” argument. If so we wouldn’t have been stuck with Sultan/Satrap, Elmal/Yelmalio controversies. Lunar is a nice word, and OK let’s for the sake of argument accept it as a simple adjective for ‘of the moon’. Even so, it raises the questions, When do the enemies of the Red Goddess start using the specific word Lunar? When do they followers self identify as Lunars? When does the Empire ruled by Doskalos ‘Moonson’ adopt the name ‘Lunar’?

Just trying to see if I’m the only one who worries about these things…

[Martin Helsdon]

Before Time, a moon goddess fell to earth, crushing Mernita, according to some sources. The Red Goddess is an ancient moon goddess reborn in Time, or at least portions of her.

[alcazar1578]

That may well be our answer. ‘Lunar’ is in fact a plural adjective! It’s not just the empire of the physical red moon but all moons, those hidden and those destroyed or subsumed but manifest in the aspects of Sedenya.
We Are All Us!

[Jeff Richard]

The Red Goddess claimed “Lunar” associations from the very beginning. She was the Moon Goddess reborn as a mortal (and thus able to change within Time).

[Scott Martin]

Alcazar, this does raise the question of what the “Lunars” call themselves and their state apparatus when they’re at home. Is it simply “the Empire?” “The Community of the Way?” “Rufelza’s Dominion?” I can’t remember seeing the polity’s formal name in the texts but am sure someone will perk up.

[Jeff Richard]

Most citizens refer to the Lunar Empire as “the Empire” or “the Good Lands” or whatever their traditional name for the Solar Empire is. The Red Emperor himself has no name, only titles. He is the Moonson, Lord of the Four Quarters, Staff and Pillar to God, Leader of the Egi, Shah of Shahs, and the Bright and Illustrious Emperor of Dara Happa.

[Chris Holden]

Quote:

Quote from Scott Martin on September 6, 2013, 19:06
Alcazar, this does raise the question of what the “Lunars” call themselves and their state apparatus when they’re at home. Is it simply “the Empire?” “The Community of the Way?” “Rufelza’s Dominion?” I can’t remember seeing the polity’s formal name in the texts but am sure someone will perk up.

At the very least ‘Lunar’ is a term used on the Rubble Expedition Registration form (PGTA p279), in that there is a ‘Lunar Govenor’ sinature slot. EDIT: I can’t be bothered to check, but I think it is the same as the one in the old RQ material.

[Keith Nellist]

I’d like to understand the etymology of the Lunar noble houses. Taran Il, Vakthan Ilart, Eel.
Il, Ilart, Eel all seem to come from the same root word.

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